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Post by Girl Friday on Aug 20, 2008 5:20:35 GMT
New song. New condenser mic. New ability to do drum "fill" in between verse and chorus! Yay! :-) Here's the MP3...I also posted it on my website tonight! Four more to record! www.sendspace.com/file/dbut0l
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Post by chrisr on Aug 20, 2008 10:47:43 GMT
Nice song and well played & sung, GF.
I have one remark, that has nothing to do with your music or your playing, GF : the recorded sound of the acoustic guitar is not as it should be.
I hope I'm not driving you all nuts with my "acoustic guitar not sounding right" comments, but here I hear it again. A mighty guitar as the Martin 16 should not sound as "cheap" as this.
We all know that the sound of a good acoustic instrument is all about harmonics and stuff, and I must agree with Mike : the MP3 compression while recording seems to kill so much of the harmonics off, that for some instruments (i.e. acoustic guitar), it just makes it not sound "right" anymore.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Aug 20, 2008 14:19:38 GMT
Man, Now the corporate firewall is preventing me from using either Myspace or Sendspace. I'll listen tonight.
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Post by Tom on Aug 20, 2008 14:35:48 GMT
GF,
As always -- nice song, well performed -- again demonstrating that there is no substitute for talent.
I am with Chris on the acoustic needing to sound better. Way to thin for a Martin IMO, especially in a tune like this one where the simplicity of the backing music makes the tone of the acoustic all the more important. I have no experience with recording acoustics so can't comment on recording technique, but maybe some EQ might help.
Tom
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Post by Girl Friday on Aug 20, 2008 16:05:59 GMT
I appreciate your critiques. It's the only way to get better. What might I do in the EQ dept. to fatten the sound? I can send the tracks a little later if anyone would like to have a go at mixing. I bounced the bass and drums to 1, guitar on 2, harmony 3, lead vocal 4....I recorded a lot of extra measures at the end so I could just fade out. I haven't gotten the hang of ending with a drum track, so fading is easier. I did figure out how to start on the one beat though! This is new for me! Anyone notice? ;D It's really difficult trying to make a great song and a great recording. It's A LOT of different skills! Words, notes, rhymes, rhythms, phrases, thoughts....then putting into the recorder with good technique without sucking the life out of it....then having it come OUT of the recorder sounding right! Whew!! Uses every inch of my brain! Love it!
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Post by chrisr on Aug 20, 2008 17:19:55 GMT
It's our honest opinion, GF, and well... that's what music friends are (also) for, I think.
Nothing to do with your music, your talent, your playing, or your skills : that's all first class.
I'm not even sure that it has to do with EQing, and it's far from certain that we could possibly mix or master the song better than you did.
I think it has to do with the MP3 compression.
Still, if you'd like to send us the tracks, we could give remixing a try (EQing and all, and tell you exactly the settings we used). For you to decide afterwards if you think our settings are better (or worse).
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Post by Tom on Aug 20, 2008 17:24:14 GMT
I can have a look at it on the weekend, although I am probably not the one to be fooling with EQ, especially on an acoustic guitar track, and especially considering that my hearing at higher frequencies is not very good. Mike, Chris or Stan would probably be better qualified to listen to the PS5 track and tell if the sound as recorded can be helped by EQ.
Heck -- I fade everything. I just keep recording till I mess up and then make sure to fade out before that point in the mix.
Tom
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Post by Girl Friday on Aug 20, 2008 21:45:04 GMT
I always plug my guitar into the recorder, or into the mixer then the recorder. I generally don't mess with the EQ simply because I don't feel like I know what I'm doing enough to make anything better. ha!
I have another acoustic song to record that will likely just be guitar...maybe a little glockenspiel. :-) I might try to record it using my condenser mic on my guitar, and not plug in at all. That mic is ridiculously sensitive. As a matter of fact, I turned the pre-amp level and levels on the recorder SUPER low, and it still wanted to "clip" when I was hardly projecting!! I am going to have to practice with it a lot. I felt like I was whispering...and I even stood back a bit! It's very cool! I do like it's sound.
I really do appreciate all of your advice and am NEVER offended by suggestions. I know we're all in this to do our best! And as Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen farther, it is from standing on the shoulders of giants." ;D I wish I were able to make contributions and offer help to you all, but you guys are the ones with all the "smarts" in this area, and I'm the leech. Now if you want to sew a dress, decorate a cake, or design a fitness plan, give me a holler!
Someone added my new song to their player! They liked it! I'm just blown away that people actually listen in! I started my page as an afterthought back in January...just for fun with NO expectations whatsoever, and it's turned into a fun little performance venue and great space to connect with others who have a passion for music as well.
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Post by chrisr on Aug 20, 2008 22:22:07 GMT
Designing a fitness plan would be very nice, GF, but too late for me, I think. Should have had that done twenty years ago, maybe.
More seriously : I'm sure you know this, but just in case : with those large diaphragm condenser mikes, you indeed have to "stand back" a little (say some eight to ten inches or more).
And indeed : it takes some practice to know what the right "gain" & input level settings are.
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 21, 2008 0:06:01 GMT
Pros: Moves along with a nice tempo. Well structured & performed. I love your harmony vocals. None of the rest of us sing anywhere well enough for that (except maybe Cameron). Solid, steady drum part with nice breaks in the right places. Good fade (are you listening, Stan?).
Cons The guitar is indeed a bit tinny and flat. The drums overpower all the other instruments - better balance between the backing parts would help. I'm not hearing any kind of middle or changeup, or even an interesting riff between verses. As good as the whole is, I start drifting off halfway through.
Overall, it's a good album track, but not a single (unlike 'Dorothy' or 'Light of the Moon', but hey, they can't all be singles, can they?). It's small-step adventurousness, until the next 'big' step. I like it, but as with some of your other work, I feel like I could like it more with a bit of tweaking.
I know you're starting to think about going into a pro studio, and that's always a good idea, but in your case, a good producer will be just as important (if not more so!) to achieve a great finished product. Don't ask the engineer, because you're already paying him to be a yes man. That's not what you'll need.
You're right, you do have to wear a lot of different hats, some fit better than others. But that's the nature of the beast. Look how much better you are at many of these different areas than when you first showed up here. You're much more tech-savy, your ear is more discerning regarding frequencies, mixing, panning... We're all on different levels, but nobody here is on top of the game in every area. You're way ahead of all of us in some ways, behind in others. That's why we're all here, to pool our combined knowledge.
Anyway, good song. Make the next one better.
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Post by Girl Friday on Aug 21, 2008 2:18:33 GMT
Let's talk about middle, change up, interesting riff.... Since I am coming from a position of years of playing acoustic guitar, picking or strumming, and just singing along with my playing, I tend to neglect leaving "space" if you will, for interesting lead lines of piano, violin, or even electric guitar. Now that I'm multi-tracking, I need to change my mindset when writing. I feel like I start with a good "skeleton" of a song, but I know exactly what you're saying about a producer. I feel like I need coaching or direction in tweaking the construction. If you don't mind my asking your opinion, in this song, what/ where specifically would you tweak? I am definitely open for suggestions. Would you add more measures in between verses, or just interject some type of riff in the existing transitions? And when you say change-up, I guess the bridge comes too late for interest, so what would you do? I'm going to send the tracks, and if anyone wants to experiment with electric guitar, EQ, panning, whatever....go crazy with it. Great suggestions. Thanks!
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Aug 21, 2008 16:37:54 GMT
GF, Sorry I haven't got around to this. My wife needed the computer the whole night on her school work so I was watching a DVD in the other room. All accusses aside I will listen tonight. Mike, I'm so offended by you not liking my endings... They are all BIAB certified. Anyway, I know it something that I'm going to need to concentrate more on for future songs. I have this tendency to always keep playing past the drums. Maybe a good rule for me might be to let the drums finish the endings... (since I'm always running out of bars at the end and leave everything hanging). I'm a creature of habit (and a fairly slow learner) since I've been writing songs for 5 years now. I need to concentrate more on the song construction and less on the nice sets of software plugins I'm accumulating. This summer has been filled with a lot of distractions which has kept me away from my music; including even picking up my guitar, so EZDrummer tracks is also something I need to expand my knowledge. IMO, drums are almost as equally important as the vocal tracks to convey energy and changeups.
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Post by Girl Friday on Aug 21, 2008 17:11:20 GMT
Stan, I agree with you on the value of percussion. IMO, the energy and mood it lends to a song is important whether it's a simple shaker in the back ground or full out drum sets. In this last song I did, I liked the difference in just adding those little "fill" transitions to sort of "cue" to energy. It must be an AMAZING feeling to play with a live drummer!!!! Sigh.....
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Aug 21, 2008 18:00:02 GMT
Yes, and capturing live drums in a studio env. is not easy either; not to mention micing several inputs at the same time with mic varying placements.
That's why I went the extra step and got EZDrummer this summer. Now to learn how to create a good drum bus setup for reverb and effects to go with the tracks. The BBE Sonic Maximizer VST plugin is a good enhancement tool for drum if you have them issolated on their own tracks.
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Post by chrisr on Aug 21, 2008 18:17:17 GMT
GF says : It must be an AMAZING feeling to play with a live drummer!!!!
It's also an amazing feeling to play as a live drummer, I can tell you...
One day, GF, you will need (and thus have) a live band, with a live drummer and all. Make sure to choose a 1st class drummer, and an evenly 1st class bass player. Even if all the others would only be "good", you'll have a top band.
And one day you will also need (and thus work with) a good producer. That will be the day when you have a record deal (with a good company) and when you make your first distributed CD.
But for the moment, I would suggest that you just continue doing what you do now : progressing, making songs, building a repertoire, and being enthusiastic about it all.
And sure enough, "the day" will come.
In the meantime : enjoy ! Once it gets "serious", it may not always be that much fun any more, so...
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