sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 18, 2008 2:59:10 GMT
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Post by chrisr on Sept 18, 2008 18:29:43 GMT
Hey Stan,
Another song by one of our most productive songwriters !
This composition has all the basics of a good song, but …how can I put it…it’s like a perfectly fine dish with all the right ingredients, where the cook has half killed the taste by adding too many spices.
A mighty fine Gulley composition, but the song is a bit too long : it would be better with a shorter solo, and maybe with one verse less.
Everything is – as usual – very well played, but the harmony of it all is not “clear” enough. Too many (guitar) parts during the whole song. A lot simpler would be better, I think.
The drums is OK (it even has that “old” sound ; I like that), as is the bass. Still, I would keep the bass more straight forward and simpler. This kind of a song does not ask for a complicated bass part : the simpler, the better.
The singing is very well done. But what’s the reason for the sudden and unexpected (far too much) reverb on it at some points ? I think it would be better without that.
This is, in my view, typically a song requiring no more than say 8 tracks (drums 2, bass 1, guitars 2, vocals 1 or 2 and maybe harmonica 1) to record.
It’s not easy to limit oneself to 8 tracks, when one has 24 ready and waiting in the machine, but honestly, this song doesn’t need more.
If you keep it simpler (and a bit shorter), this could be one of your greatest hits, Stan.
Honest opinion.
Chris
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Post by mcarp555 on Sept 18, 2008 19:43:01 GMT
Well, I agree with Chris on some things, but not all. I think the parts are fine as they are, lots of crunchy guitars playing parts (no jamming!), bubbly bass, straightforward drumming. All supporting what's really just a typical three-chord tune very much in the style of mid- to late-60's Stones. The guitar parts really save it from being mediocre, however. I really like the riff.
I understand the reasoning for the extra reverb, on the word "drift" and the title line. Makes sense, but not good in practice. The vocal throughout could use a bit more reverb than you're giving it. Don't pump it up on "drift" but if you want to add it on "by and bye", then REALLY add it, and make it sound like you're falling backwards into a black hole or something.
My biggest complaints are that yes, the song is too long. The last verse is too many, and the third verse really needs to be a middle eight, perhaps going with the IV chord. This would really shift the song and give it a bump just as attentions start to wander.
And of course, after this possibly great song, we get yet another lousy ending. It would be the easiest thing in the world to play on for another verse or two, and fade out. I know with computer mixing it's just a matter of snapping a line and letting the machine ride it down. Why can't we get a good finish to at least ONE song?
Overall a lot of potential. But still some old habits gotta die hard.
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Post by Tom on Sept 18, 2008 20:39:17 GMT
Hi Stan, Mike and Chris have covered all aspects so I'll just weigh in my 2 cents on what they said. Too many guitars for my liking as well, but then that's mostly my taste in music. For sure this tune has distinct guitar riffs-- not just jamming as Mike said -- and the sum of them, while more than my taste would prefer, doesn't get in the way of the vocal message. As for a simpler bass line , I'd have to hear it with one to take a position on that -- it does seem a little busy behind the verses, but not so much in the choruses. The vocal is well sung; perhaps it could use a little more reverb throughout as Mike said. The ending? Tom
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 18, 2008 21:59:05 GMT
Man I really appreciate the detail from these posts; Chris some good points. These are going to help alot. I definitely agree with the length of the song after hearing it from my headphones at work today it kind of wore me out, and as Mike said should be easier to fade out at after the 3rd verse/chrous.
Mike's reverb/delay suggestion in spots might get a little tricky but I will revisit for sure.
I had to quickly do this first mix on the computer last night and then my wife had to finish her homework. Good excuse right....
There are some lead spills in the verses as Tom point to that probably should get wiped up & maybe bring the long solo towards the middle up a little.
I'm going to give it more work over the weekend, and thanks for taking the time to listen.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 20, 2008 19:06:44 GMT
I spent more time on the mix today and reposted the song. Shorter, and hopefully a little better.
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Post by chrisr on Sept 20, 2008 20:20:12 GMT
Well Stan, I think it's a lot better this way, indeed.
If I had to mix it, I would give some more volume to the drums and to the solo guitar in the mix.
The choice of reverb for the vocals is not the one that I would have made (it's kind of a hall reverb ; I would have chosen a shorter studio reverb), but you're probably right on this. I like it for this kind of song.
Well done, Stan.
Chris
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Post by mcarp555 on Sept 20, 2008 21:15:51 GMT
I'm not sure if the lead needs more volume or maybe a bit more mids and lo in the EQ to make it stand out. Overall I agree with Chris - the mix could be massaged a bit more, but it's not bad as it is.
And a fade! I think I'm gonna cry...
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Post by Girl Friday on Sept 21, 2008 4:54:13 GMT
Well, I'm impressed!!
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 22, 2008 14:50:15 GMT
Thanks for listening again. I noticed a significant difference between the dowloaded MP3 and streaming it through the SC player; especaially with spatial effects on drums & vocal parts.
There seemed to be lots of compression on top of compression inside the player.
Thanks GF for listening. Chris, I might attempt a new mix and bypass the compression step from the 2488. Mike, that will give me a chance to smooth out the ending a little.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 26, 2008 20:08:04 GMT
The ending was a longer fade this time but I don't know if it can be done better or not. Anyway, I think mix 3 is about where I want it to sound as far as EQs &volume levels go. Bypassing compression on the 2488 seems to have given it better clarity.
Thanks again for all of the help. Stan
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Post by chrisr on Sept 26, 2008 20:50:38 GMT
Yeah, I agree : that's a fine mix, Stan.
By the way (and you'll say "here he goes again"), this is another of your songs that makes me think of Tom Petty...
Well done ! I like it.
Chris
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 27, 2008 13:45:08 GMT
Thanks Chris for listening again and your suggestions.
How is you new recorder training going.? I know it takes some time to get comfortable with something with so many features. Can't wait to hear some tracks. Have you recorded your guitar with your new mic yet. I usually keep mic compression at about 6-8 db.
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Post by chrisr on Sept 27, 2008 19:38:18 GMT
Hi Stan,
No, the new toy will be here this weekend.
I am somewhat overbooked these days (a lot of work to do), so I will not be able to do much with the Korg the coming few weeks, but I'll have more time from half October on.
I'll keep you all posted, of course.
Chris
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Post by Tom on Sept 28, 2008 1:12:45 GMT
Finally got a chance to give the new mix a listen in MP3 form. Very nice Stan. I like the guitars -- your guitar work and the fact that the guitars to me sound more distinct and complimentary than ever. (Was the sound improvement just removing the 2488 compression or did you EQ as well?) The solo on the center guitar can come up some in level I think, but kudos on the playing and laying it in there in the middle and having it fit so well with the others on the left and right. Very tasteful. The vocal as well. One of your best for sure. Regards, Tom Oh yeah -- the fade! ditto what Mike said. TC
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