sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
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Post by sgulley on Mar 16, 2008 20:36:04 GMT
Just finished recording today: A parallism between Hades (which is a physical place awaiting final judgment of going to heaven or hell) & a man that truly looses meaning trapped inside the complexities of life. This song actually derives from “The Flying Dutchman” (thus Flying D.) which is folklore. Men for several centuries actually believed that they saw this ghostship hopelessly suspended in time with no hope of ever finding its way back. www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=221925&songID=6368162
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Post by Tom on Mar 17, 2008 2:16:50 GMT
I had a listen. Seems decently recorded, although I would like it to feel more bottom, especially when moving to the chorus. Guitars sound a little out of tune with each other, but who am I to complain about that. Tom
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Mar 17, 2008 2:53:25 GMT
Guitars as in which of the 7 guitar tracks... 4 acoustics (all play with the same guitar), 2 with the strat, and the bass; which probably is a little out. I used the guitar tuner for everything but the bass. I do have some off-tuned effects like the dirty leslie which could be part of it. Also, a huge amount of open strings played on this which can contribute to an untuned sound; especially around the G string area (which never plays totally-true). I actually like slight off tune sound to most of my songs.
Vocal effects are really where I personally think it will need some tweaks or change ups. Very rough draft at this stage.
Anyway, thanks for taking time to listen Tom.
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Post by Tom on Mar 17, 2008 3:36:59 GMT
Now Stan -- don't get me started on the number of overlayed guitars you always use on your stuff. Know what you mean about the G string. I fight it all the time. And lots of open strings on multiple guitars can't help any. Tom
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Post by mcarp555 on Mar 17, 2008 15:16:20 GMT
Firstly, I really like the song in terms of the feel, the chord structure, etc. As a piece of music I think it's neat. Like Tom, I think the low end is nearly nonexistent. I hear the bass doing interesting things, but it's all midrange. The solos (esp. the 2nd one) are great, but I feel the whole recording is drenched in overdrive which obscures so much. If that's the plan, then that's fine, but it's not the kind of thing I can listen to for long. Overall the song has a late 60's - early 70's late night FM station feel, like the old days when they'd play whole sides of an album at midnight.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Mar 31, 2008 15:55:05 GMT
I've uploaded a new version of this Friday. I change some lyrics and redid vocals and also added a new bass line for better clarify. The vocals are more haunting but a little stronger.
Let me know what kind of mix adjustments (especailly individual track volume levels) are necessary on this newest version if you get some time to listen. I'd like your feedback and then do a final version of this.
SC link for the song is at the top of this post. Thanks, Stan
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Post by mcarp555 on Apr 1, 2008 20:24:02 GMT
I think the vocals are great. Probably some of the best you've ever done. Bass is good. I'm not crazy about the way the drums fade in for each chorus. I think I'd rather hear them actually 'start' like a drummer would do it live. Drums fading in just sounds wrong because you never hear that in real life.
The mix overall seems somewhat 'in your face' - the bass and possibly the vocal are prominent, the drums distant, and the guitars somewhat in between. Don't know how much compression you've got on this, but try a test mix without the vocals and see if you can get a better balance on all the parts, then fly the vocal in on top, and compress the mix somewhat to see if you can get the vocal to nestle in the mix.
I know that sounds odd, but it's the picture in my head. The parts are all pretty good individually, but they're not meshing together as well as they could be.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Apr 1, 2008 21:30:28 GMT
Thanks Mike! I'm on the same page with you. This is actually my first mix that was mostly done on the computer. I know I can get the vocals to sit much better as well as bass and guitar, but I've had a real problem with the drums that have followed throughout.
The drums were the original 2488 drum patterns that I recorded with but beats were in between instead of on most timing points of the song, so they sound absolutely terrible in the verses, and kind of line up on the chorus. That is why they quickly fade in towards the end of each chorus; otherwise are alost absent in the rest of the song.
What I'd like to do is quantify the drum audio track and try to MIDI align an EZDrummer track in its place. That would be cool to pull off but I don't think I'm skilled enough yet to accomplish. Maybe this weekend I can give it a shot.
I might have to let this project sit until I can learn some of my new plugins much better. I'll probably be in learning mode more than recording mode at least until after the summer. It's frustrating but I need to put in some pain, for better gain.
As always, appreciate your suggestions, Stan
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Apr 6, 2008 19:30:20 GMT
Well Mike I stuck one out until it was finished (longest amount of time I've ever spent on a single song, and it wasn't an easy one)... I totally reprogrammed back in a new drum track using EZDrummer & with some audio quantization. It was an excellent learning experience for me but a little frustrating as well. This a very subjective/fictional folklore type of music so its not really within the range of the normal masses. The link at the top will play the new mix. Thanks you guys for suggestions and helping out. Suggestions or not, I think this song is going to have to ride the way it is.
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Post by mcarp555 on Apr 6, 2008 19:40:58 GMT
Stan, probably one of the hardest things to do is add drums as the last thing to a track. It's not an exercise for the faint-hearted. My biggest problem with these 'build-your-own-drum' programs/plugins/etc. is that since I'm not a drummer, it would be very difficult to lay down a coherent track. The program would keep it in time (at least to itself), but as for how to add rolls, fills, etc. I'm clueless. The PS5 drums may have their limits, but at least it's easy to use and always sounds tight.
I agree that it might be time to let this one go for now. In all honesty I would just take out the drums altogether and post it without 'em. Come back to it one day, and lay down a killer drum track first then build on it.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Apr 7, 2008 0:19:15 GMT
Hi Mike, Yeah, I know what rolls & fillers are, and rate of velocity on the hits are, but as far as which patterns are compatible with each other, it's pretty tough on anyone building their own drums; so that gives me much respect for the good drummers.
Since I've already rebuilt the drums and then built back around them with several newly recorded tracks I probably won't take the total redo approach again. Just not worth it. But I have to disagree about drum plugins, & their progress over the years, since these are better than the original drums that I recorded to. It's the off-beat along with the many change ups in this song that straight patterns such as the ones with the 2488 & PS5 are incapable of handling. Anyway it's all pretty much an art so it is therefore subjective.
I'm not a big MIDI fan, & more of an audiophile, but it looks like the majority of home recordists are getting very MIDI-savy because most musicians can't handle playing guitar, bass, piano, drums, brass, & flute with any amount of success.
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Post by mcarp555 on Apr 7, 2008 8:16:46 GMT
True true; programmer is another hat to wear if you delve deeply enough into home recording (along with writer, producer, artist, sideman, promoter, engineer...). But it seems that as drum plugins have progressed over the years, giving you more control over building the tracks means having to assemble parts as a drummer would. I can write string parts with some degree of confidence, but coordinating a kick, snare, hi-hat and cymbals with tom-toms is one of those tasks I equate to sketching the Mona Lisa on a grain of rice. I'm happy to give up detailed control for ease of use.
MIDI use probably varies from person to person; someone who actually plays drums may struggle with keyboard parts, which would be the complete opposite of my situation. So I'm more likely to use MIDI drums than someone happy to use MIDI keyboards.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Apr 7, 2008 13:38:41 GMT
The tracks I've had the most difficulty with, believe it or not, is when a canned drum pattern is too busy (like a 3-handed drummer) with hi-hats, cymbals, and every kind of drum hit imaginable. I like less cymbal activity with just the bass, tom, and snare. That way it cuts down on the competition of conflicting sounds later. But yes, drums are now by biggest headache.
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