|
Autumn
Mar 31, 2008 1:17:21 GMT
Post by Objecks on Mar 31, 2008 1:17:21 GMT
After a two-year hiatus, and just in time for our friends down-under, a new arrangement and recording of "Autumn" by the Objecks. This is my first recording on a Tascam 2488MKII, which, to my chagrin, does not have an internal tone generator to play a midi backing. I also had trouble getting the sound I wanted on my rhythm guitar. Not sure I'm going to keep it, but I wanted to try it out anyway. As it turns out, I could have done this on a PS5, since I only ended up using four recorded tracks. I recorded additional tracks for a third guitar and a backing vocal, but the guitar clashed with the rest of the arrangement (too many instruments in the same pitch range) and the backing vocal clashed with the entire history of Western music! Quote from the song description on Soundclick: "New arrangement of a song I wrote in 1969. Originally this song was modeled after 'Punky's Dilemma' by Simon & Garfunkel. This arrangement is inspired by 'City Morning Song' by Sarah Shannon, with elements of 'Penny Lane,' 'Getting Better,' 'Wedding Bell Blues,' and some other songs with a mid-tempo swing feel." Charlie
|
|
sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
|
Autumn
Mar 31, 2008 2:34:36 GMT
Post by sgulley on Mar 31, 2008 2:34:36 GMT
Hi Charlie, Glad to see you are back writing/recording songs again. Congradulations on your new 24-track machine. The Tascam 2488MKII got rid of the TG to bring down the total cost of the machine making it more affordable. Many purchasers thought that a drum machine was included but were unpleasantly surprised when they got it home. Others thought the TG was still in the machine but drum patterns were elliminated. The good thing is that you can record your MIDI to 2 mono WAVs and USB import them into a stereo-pair in the recorder. Since the backing is in audio you have more options with the sound such as EQ & compression. Anyway, it looks like you did record your original MIDI backing into your recorder's mix somehow. The thing I like about extra tracks is it opens up so many options that just aren't possible with a 4-tracks.... I think 14 tracks is the most I've ever used while completing a song, and I average around 8 to 10 tracks per project. I like your intro of "Autumn" & did remind me of "Getting Better," and the horn solo towards the end did remind me of "Penny Lane." Enjoyed hearing one of your songs again, Stan
|
|
|
Autumn
Mar 31, 2008 17:10:50 GMT
Post by Tom on Mar 31, 2008 17:10:50 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I left my phones at home today, so shall have to wait until I get home from work to have a listen.
Regarding the MkII, count me as someone who thought the patterns were gone but TG was still there. That is a bummer for me as I use MIDI and, whenever I get to more tracks, I want the ability to change the MIDI at anytime throughout the project as I can now do with the PS5. My hope is that I can somehow sychronize whatever I buy -- currently looking most closely the 2488MkII and Yamaha AW1600 -- with an outboard MIDI source to ensure that synchronization is maintained. If either of you guys ever experiment with such a method, I would appreciate hearing how it goes.
Regards, Tom
|
|
sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
|
Autumn
Mar 31, 2008 18:08:33 GMT
Post by sgulley on Mar 31, 2008 18:08:33 GMT
Synth rack plugins use MIDI as input but record the output results to audio. I've very recently just scratched the surface of learning the TTS-1 and EZDrummer plugins. You can import in MIDI tracks for either plugin and get some really good results. My plan now is to export the audio to the 2488 (only takes 2 tracks so who cares about a TG)... My 2488 is no longer used for total production but mainly to record 24-bit audio tracks that can be exported back to computer to do the final mastering. If you look at the menu step just before burning a CD on the 2488 it is called "PREMASTER," not master, meaning that you are probably not intending for that to be your final project step.
I have also used the 2488's S/PDIF out to record straight to the computer using my 24-bit USB Audiophile soundcard with excellent results.
In the next couple of years I plan to expand a computer and use a high-quality soundcard interface to produce even better results than 2488, but I'll want a complete room in the house for that setup.
|
|
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 0:25:01 GMT
Post by Objecks on Apr 1, 2008 0:25:01 GMT
I haven't experimented with the 2488's midi capabilities yet. I wonder if you can plug 2488's midi out into the midi input on my Creative Extigy sound card, generate the tones, and feed those sounds into two tracks on the 2488. Charlie
|
|
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 1:49:28 GMT
Post by Tom on Apr 1, 2008 1:49:28 GMT
Charlie,
From what I see on page 90 of the mkII manual I have, it should work that way -- it certainly would be worth a try if MIDI is important to you. It wouldn't be necessary if all you want to do is record the MIDI file onto two tracks once, as you could just play the MIDI back on your PC and record the audio output. But in theory, doing it as you describe should essentially sync the recorded MIDI audio output to the 2488s MIDI timing, thus allowing a couple things I think are valuable. One would be the value of being able to adjust the MIDI file later on to add instruments or change their volume, pan etc and then rerecord it and have the rerecorded tracks still be in sync with other audio (guitar, etc.) tracks you have recorded with the original MIDI file as backing. The other potential value (for me anyway) is that if such sync exists, it gives one the ability to copy, paste, punch-in etc using bars and beats for reference as opposed to usiing time references. Another method I think it is supposed to work is to slave the MIDI device itself to the 2488's MIDI timing output, thus controlling playback so as to be in time with that the 2488. I suppose that either way the issue would be latency. I wish the 2488 and other recorder manuals were more specific about these features, but perhaps they they assume that anyone wanting to use these features should already know such things. Problem is, when I have asked questions about it on line, the answer is often to just do it all on a PC and forget about standalones.
Tom
|
|
sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 15:17:10 GMT
Post by sgulley on Apr 1, 2008 15:17:10 GMT
Tom, Referring to standalones, the thing I like about these portastudios like the PS5/2488 is that you get dependable recordings w/o pops or latency problems which ruins your takes. This has never happened on a Tascam Portastudio that I've ever used.
However, with direct computer recording, where you have more options and better processing quality (now 64-bit) you still can get dropouts usually because of an internet connection that iterrupts your CPU processing during some labor-intensive I/O and the drain that individual plugin processing can have.
I'm going to wait for the more powerful dual-processors to be affordable before switching; so in 2 more years technology should be where there are both large amounts of memory and faster processors that will be able to handle most type of effects chains, and multiple sub-bus chains.
|
|
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 15:25:44 GMT
Post by mcarp555 on Apr 1, 2008 15:25:44 GMT
Stan, you might want to consider a separate computer without a net connection. Many times anything not directly related to recording (Internet, email, anti-virus,games, etc.) are removed and as much of the PC's resources as possible are directed towards processing audio. I don't know if latency issues can be completely resolved in this way, but certainly anything that interferes with the CPU cycling should be looked at as a potential trouble spot. If I was going to go into computer recording (something I considered at one point), I'd do it in a separate box, and save websurfing for the 'other' computer.
|
|
sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 17:40:19 GMT
Post by sgulley on Apr 1, 2008 17:40:19 GMT
Thanks Mike, Yeah, I now disconnect the network connection previous to any recording just for that reason. In addition, some of today's resource-hoging plugins (such as reverb processors) that are in a track's FxBin can cause hiccups. That is why it is nice to do part of the recording on the portastudio and then export over.
I have a new VC-64 vocal plugin that I'm really dying to try out so I'm going go 2488 digital out to the computer for my final track and then finish up a final mix on the computer (vocals being last to mix in)
|
|
|
Autumn
Apr 1, 2008 20:14:52 GMT
Post by mcarp555 on Apr 1, 2008 20:14:52 GMT
I suppose I should talk about the song, eh?
It is very much in the style of the songs mentioned. I liked it overall, but the obvious drum machine sound was somewhat of a distraction. Drums overall seemed staccato and 'brittle' sounding in the upper mid-range, and lacking somewhat in the low end. Bass part was a nice counterpoint to the steady tick of the guitars. I think I would have put more 'verb on the solo to blend it into the mix more, but it's a matter of taste. Generally, a good start with the new machine.
|
|