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Post by latmat on Aug 10, 2014 15:55:01 GMT
Hey guys
This ones a rerecord for the album. You might remember it from way way back. It's called hesitation, it's a beast and has been and continues to be a real challenge so I could definitely use your guys thoughts on this one.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/hesitation
Thanks guys, I truly am thankful to still have a home base on the net to share with.
Cameron
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 11, 2014 9:14:03 GMT
I dunno Cam, it sounds pretty complete to me. What do you think it's deficient in?
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Post by latmat on Aug 11, 2014 23:40:03 GMT
Thanks for taking a listen Mike...
Well I think I pinned down some issues that I couldn't figure out yesterday.
1. The harmonies needed to come up a bit. 2. The Power Chord distorted guitar was too bright, a bit harsh 3. The lead solo guitar was a bit harsh as well. 4. The sub kick frequencies were a bit too much. 5. The bass also lowered just a touch 6. The reverb bus was clouding up the vocal dynamics, so I removed a bunch of fundamental frequencies from the reverb sound. 7. The delays were a bugging me, they maybe were a touch too loud and their automations coming in a bit too abruptly.
Here is the new mix. I hope I was on the right track here...
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/hesitation-master-2
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 13, 2014 9:13:26 GMT
I hadn't realized you were going for that degree of detail in critiquing. With that in mind then...
The 2nd mix overall is more transparent, which is a good thing. When listening to it yesterday (and today), I keep thinking I'd like the backing vocals to repeat "Hesitation" behind the lead vocal, but two beats behind it. Where the word is broken up into beats: "Hes-i-ta-tion", I'd like to hear that echoed, starting on "ta":
Hes - i - ta - tion . . . . . . Hes - i - ta - tion
... etc. It may also work on the second phrase of the chorus as well.
Also, I'm not crazy about the lead guitar coming in at the end of the (second?) verse; it feels like its stepping on the vocal. It does lead into a short pause, during which I think the guitar cuts off too abruptly. There should be a fade there instead.
Also the end is too rough; I'd prefer a slightly longer fade over a smoothly dying chord. It currently has too much "flutter" for lack of a better word, and then cuts off.
As for the mix itself, as noted, it's much less muddy overall. I'd like more of that jangly piano on the right; the part is too good to bury in the mix as much as it currently is, and when it pops up during the stop, it's literally out of nowhere. When the lead guitar comes in proper towards the last third of the song, I'd like it just a tad more prominent; Maybe sharpen up some of the frequencies to lift it out slightly more. Right now it's one of those "rhythm guitarist plays short lead break" moments.
I'd also suggest spreading the panning a bit wider. A lot of this mix is panned very close to center, with some bits full L or R; spreading it out more between these extremes should have a pronounced effect on the overall dynamics.
No doubt anyone listening to the current mix and reading our comments will think we're both nuts.
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Post by latmat on Aug 13, 2014 21:42:41 GMT
Mike you truly reserve a special place in my heart! I have to leave the house for a bit but I will be posting an update when I get home. Top notch suggestions!
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Aug 14, 2014 1:15:22 GMT
WOW, it's a good sounding song! It seems like there is a bit too much going on most of the time through out. The vocal echoes or xtra layering might be crowding some clarity out of the song but its hard to put a finger on.
There's also a lot of consistent piano? I would thin part of the activity out in certain parts but be very selective about it (if that makes any sense)
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Post by latmat on Aug 14, 2014 16:59:30 GMT
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/hesitation-master-3
Ok so ya, Mike thanks for the great ideas I went ahead and tried them out and I really like the Hesitation backing vocals idea worked really well. Your idea spawn another idea too to kinda hit real hard with the band on aggravation after a brief piano accompaniment. I fiddled with the panning and general widening of the stereo spectrum as well I think its a bit more open now. I tried to focus the stereo piano a bit to the right side where the higher note lay to bring them out more.
As per Stans suggesting I removed most of the roots out of the chords which I think really don't need to be in there with a band playing. It at the very least thinned it out a bit... Refined the delay/echoes on the vocal a bit more as well.
Oh I also extended the fade out lengthening the chord ring out... hopefully that accomplished something as far as the fluttery aspect.
Ya, I think this is really coming along. The more I listen the more I feel some of the bass guitar might be a bit too loose at time, if you guys listen again I wouldn't mined hearing your thoughts on if I should revisit that part...
Again, thanks for you continued help; when I get this album done I assure you, you both will be special mentions on my "thank you list".
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 15, 2014 8:12:29 GMT
Listening to #2 and #3 back to back reveals that the mix overall is much improved. It's helped bring to the fore the vocal, lead guitar and bass parts, but not to the point of being overpowering. The three of them have more presence, and careful listening will show how dramatic the change is, and for the better.
I don't see any problems with the bass part; it all sounds fine to me as is.
The only thing that really sticks out to me is still that guitar note at 3:01; I'd rather fade than cut, even if it means lengthening the pause (in fact, almost certainly). Maybe even take out the two piano notes (which come across more and more to me as cheesy), and just come back in with the vocals. Maybe you should consider a test mix where the guitar fades to silence for one or two beats, then comes back with the vocals, etc. I'd like to hear that, and you might be surprised.
Other than that, I don't know if any further tweaking to the track will accomplish much. It might then be time to put it away for awhile to give the ears a chance to rest.
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 15, 2014 14:14:08 GMT
Six hours later, and I'm still mulling over the two piano notes. The song is currently stuck in my head, and now I can't decide if the two notes work or not. I'm still keen on fading the guitar note, but now that little piano lick might be one of those points that the whole song literally revolves around, although I'd still like to experience the mix without it, just to see what its like. Perhaps the best thing to do is defer to the author and go with what he thinks is best.
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Post by latmat on Aug 15, 2014 15:47:49 GMT
I totally understand where your coming from Mike. Those two ding ding, piano notes are really kind of silly or cheesy yet at the same time they made me smile and at least to me it gives the impression that the song isn't taking itself way too seriously. I also like how it sort of creates a change in mood from the big dramatic bridge, solo and breakdown pre-chorus in a memorable way for better or worse. I will definitely do a pass without it for us to listen to and I'll try a fade out there too on the guitar. There's no harm in trying it out.
I sure appreciate your time offering your insights Mike...
I'll be back with a mix later.
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Post by latmat on Aug 15, 2014 16:59:08 GMT
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/hesitation-no-piano-fill-m
Something like this...
Ya, not sure how I feel yet, will have to digest it for a bit...
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Post by mcarp555 on Aug 15, 2014 20:08:30 GMT
Well, I definitely like it without the guitar cutting off. Do I like it without the piano? It's a 50/50 thing. Can you have the piano without the cut? Probably not. It could be the case that, having heard the piano, it's difficult for us to "un-hear" it now. I could live with it like this, but ultimately it's your decision. Take the weekend and mull it over. The tracks aren't going anywhere. And I apologize now for painting you into a corner on this.
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