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Post by latmat on Sept 19, 2014 8:06:40 GMT
Hey guys
Gotta another one near finished that I could use your seal of approval and or assessment. You may remember this one too. It's called Cognitive Vacuum.
It's certainly a different track, Lots of diminished triads and tritones. I added and changed some of the harmony and lead vocals, of course re-singing those, added a lead guitar as well...
I kept a few things from the original version... the bass [Which was played with surprisingly with fingers rather than pick. I used to always use a pick but have since come to accept that fingers are far superior in tone and punch, the whole album is too be played fingers so that really made me happy],
kept the sampled vocal doing doos and ahhs
I also kept the original Strings/oboe and such in the instrumental interlude I didn't get the midis off the university computer (So dumb of me, oh well) but I did get a bounce of the entire section. I hope these original parts done in the original version hold up, especially the strings cause I can not change its balance effectively... I could transcribe the parts but I think it is decent so I am hoping I don't need to go through all that work...
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/cognitive-vacuum
Anyway, as always I hope to hear your thoughts. Its a huge help to me if even in confidence alone; to call it complete.
Thanks, Cameron
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Post by mcarp555 on Sept 19, 2014 12:16:45 GMT
Sadly, I don't recall this one either. A lot of tracks have gone under the bridge over the years.
1) I found myself wondering how the drums would sound with echo (esp. on the kick). Or at least more 'verb to make them resonate more.
2) Center the lead guitar in the intro?
3) Vocals are almost entirely swallowed up by the backing. I can't make out any distinct words. You may be hearing them better because you're more focused on them than other listeners. I think if you put the track away for a weekend, then listened to it while you were a room away (crank it up in the living room and walk out into the hallway or kitchen), you'd be shocked at how indistinct the vocals are.
4) I don't hear anything 'bad' going on elsewhere, or in the ending. I'm finding it hard to engage with this one; may be more of an album filler track than a standout single.
I started out playing bass with fingers, then switched to pick to get more attack. I still play 95% pick.
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Post by latmat on Sept 19, 2014 17:04:59 GMT
Hey thanks for the listen and solid assessment. Don't worry my narcissism will survive lol. I know what you mean Mike, between all of us we've probably done hundred upon hundreds+ of records... I just wanted to preface that you've all heard it before. It's really only special tracks that stick it's true. For example, your song "In Between" and Stan's "Birds of Yesterday" have stuck with me. Interesting idea with the drums, I'll give that a go. Will fix those issues. It is really crazy how un-objective I can get. No worries, this one is definitely the least accessible track for the album its an odd track. I'm doing it because its part of my story, losing my grandfather to Alzheimer's way before his time, watching him deteriorate etc. And because musically I find it interesting. It might be filler but its hopefully meaningful filler Interesting Mike. I am probably going through a bit of phase and experience of growing my skills playing fingers on the bass too. My statement probably came off arrogant... Sorry. I should say right now I am preferring the tone and punch of fingers lol. In the past I used to really only play steady 8th notes on the bass which lends itself to using a pick I think. I've been trying, when appropriate, to explore other bass parts away from that way of thinking. Playing fingers has helped me sort of bridge that inclination as well. Might have something to do with primarily being a gtr player who plays bass, then starting with a pick. I'll probably find the truth in the middle with time... Thanks again, I'll remix after a break...
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Post by mcarp555 on Sept 19, 2014 19:50:27 GMT
Some people are diehard pickers, others are just as dead-set on using fingers. My main problem with finger style is that I have to really cut the nails on the first two fingers really, really close, otherwise they contact the string and give it more of a pick sound. Your statement wasn't arrogant; just amusing.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Sept 20, 2014 1:11:12 GMT
Hi Cam, Actually I really like this song with almost a Def Leppard feel... (maybe even listen to and see how their mix fits)... I think I'm hearing something similar to what Mike's suggestion was; which was to verb the drums a bit (hear the Def drum sound and the light upper cymbals that don't distract or hog)... again, I'm hearing too much in the higher EQ range for drums that could be cut out to leave some room for your vocals' upper range. If it was me I might even add one dry primary vocal and bring the volume down just enough for a little more vocal reinforcement in the middle.
If this isn't making much sense then just study a couple of "Def mixes" for mixing ideas and you will land this; because this is a cool song that deserve full effects! Great original!
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Post by latmat on Sept 22, 2014 23:10:10 GMT
https%3A//soundcloud.com/latmat/cognitive-vacuum-2014Ok remixed this track, tried to a incorporate both of your guys's awesome input. Added that echo to the Kick and Snare. Used a 16th note delay and kept it subdued eq and level wise just to stay out of the way. It's pretty cool, I think its neat cause every now and then it really pops out and adds a lot to the ambience I think. Great suggestion. Moved that lead guitar centre which is much better. I also played with the pianos panning in order to balance the guitars. Gave the vocal a different treatment, bringing it forward and slightly louder. Hopefully with a better mix it will connect with the listener better. I listened to Def Leppard to get a feel for the vibe, pretty tough to live up to their tracks. I am a huge Def Leppard fan. A tall order but definitely good recordings to reference for something like this. I ended up taking some top end off the drum bus, sort of compensating for the little bit of air I was adding to other tracks on sub master bus. I think that helped a bit. Added a bit of 2k to the lead vocal. I usually never add anything o my vocals eq wise except for "air" but the 2k bump seemed to help give a little 'edge'? to it or definition maybe... Thanks guys much appreciated, hopefully you can let me know how I did. , an improvement in any case...
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Post by mcarp555 on Oct 1, 2014 8:26:11 GMT
In many ways, the track reminds me a lot of this, esp. with the style of the guitar:
I think you're nearly there. I might kick the lead guitar level up a bit more in the intro and between the verses. The volume of it behind the vocal is fine. Drums have a lot more 'fire' in them than I recall from the first mix. Vocals are more up front. Are you going to leave the solo empty like that?
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Oct 6, 2014 2:49:16 GMT
Very very nice. I think this is one of your best mixes I've heard, and you have some really good ones. Drums sound great, Really Impressive!
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Post by latmat on Oct 6, 2014 17:40:17 GMT
Thanks for getting back to me on this guys, I am definitely thinking I will add a guitar lead solo during the interlude section... I think your on to something there Mike just gotta make sure its a decent solo lol... Thanks Stan that means a lot coming from you. I'll update this when I finally get to that solo...
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Post by latmat on Oct 6, 2014 18:13:37 GMT
In many ways, the track reminds me a lot of this, esp. with the style of the guitar: Interesting Mike, I think its that riff at about 1 minute in. I hear it too. Not too much out there that I'd rather be compared too... very cool song.
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sgulley
Superstar
If you really like music and recording it then never stop trying to get better at it.
Posts: 2,994
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Post by sgulley on Oct 7, 2014 16:41:13 GMT
Improving a product such as a unique invention requires patience, time, and quality assurance; even if it's still considered art. Took me a real long time, and still learning this, is to put the time and effort into the song and it will definitely evolve into something better than what you start with.
I like the way that you approach your songwriting skills... very inspiring!
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Post by mcarp555 on Oct 8, 2014 9:35:08 GMT
The turning point in my songwriting ability was when I learned to edit my own work.
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